WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.712 Joining us now, MSNBC White House reporter Laura Barone Lopez, 00:00:03.723 --> 00:00:06.212 staff writer at The New Yorker, Susan Glasser 00:00:06.223 --> 00:00:09.992 and Chief Washington Correspondent for Puck, Leanne Caldwell. 00:00:10.003 --> 00:00:12.552 I mean, Laura, I asked you this yesterday. 00:00:12.563 --> 00:00:13.872 I'm going to ask you it again today. 00:00:13.883 --> 00:00:18.672 Why is he so nervous about these emails, about this information. 00:00:18.683 --> 00:00:23.512 If he says there is no, they're there and that he thinks Jeffrey 00:00:23.523 --> 00:00:24.952 Epstein is a creep. 00:00:24.963 --> 00:00:27.672 Why not just say, yeah, take it all. Take it all. 00:00:27.683 --> 00:00:28.802 I'm fine. Take it all. 00:00:30.063 --> 00:00:30.502 Look. 00:00:31.823 --> 00:00:33.832 Katie, I don't know if I'm going to have a more satisfying 00:00:33.843 --> 00:00:35.392 answer today than I did yesterday. 00:00:35.403 --> 00:00:38.452 What I will say is that obviously we want to ask 00:00:38.463 --> 00:00:39.992 the president those questions. 00:00:40.003 --> 00:00:41.712 I'd like to ask him that question. 00:00:41.723 --> 00:00:43.772 I think other reporters in the White House 00:00:43.783 --> 00:00:50.072 Press Corps would love to ask him that question, which is why does he appear to be whipping 00:00:50.083 --> 00:00:52.572 against the vote next week? 00:00:52.583 --> 00:00:55.092 Try to get names taken off the discharge petition. 00:00:55.103 --> 00:00:57.312 Try to get House Republicans to take their name off of it. 00:00:57.323 --> 00:00:59.872 Why not be willing to release it? 00:00:59.883 --> 00:01:02.272 And no one has been able to ask him that directly, 00:01:02.283 --> 00:01:04.892 especially with cameras on in the public view. 00:01:04.903 --> 00:01:09.132 And when White House Press Secretary Caroline Leavitt was asked very directly 00:01:09.143 --> 00:01:11.732 about some of the substance of these emails. 00:01:11.743 --> 00:01:16.272 The other day she was asked by CBS reporter Weijia Zhang, 00:01:16.283 --> 00:01:21.192 did the president ever spend hours at Jeffrey Epstein's house with a victim? 00:01:21.203 --> 00:01:24.052 And she didn't answer it so they're not necessarily engaging 00:01:24.063 --> 00:01:26.652 on the substance of the emails they're not engaging 00:01:26.663 --> 00:01:31.092 on why the president is trying to divert and distract 00:01:31.103 --> 00:01:35.712 by saying he's going to now direct again direct the justice department 00:01:35.723 --> 00:01:40.892 ask the justice department the attorney general to investigate others who he knows 00:01:40.903 --> 00:01:44.092 has who may have had some relationship with Jeffrey Epstein 00:01:44.103 --> 00:01:46.412 but obviously the president had a long relationship 00:01:46.423 --> 00:01:52.152 with Jeffrey Epstein that's well documented so despite eventually saying 00:01:52.163 --> 00:02:02.112 that he kicked him out of his club years later he had a relationship with him as all those videos and those emails show and apparently does not 00:02:02.123 --> 00:02:04.482 want these to be released. 00:02:05.523 --> 00:02:09.212 There's a new survivor's letter out to members of Congress, Leanne, 00:02:09.223 --> 00:02:11.512 and here's what it says. 00:02:11.523 --> 00:02:15.492 You have the ability to vote to release the Epstein files and with it deliver 00:02:15.503 --> 00:02:19.353 a promise the American people have awaited for far too long. 00:02:19.364 --> 00:02:20.953 We implore you to do so. 00:02:20.964 --> 00:02:23.333 Several weeks ago, when a few brave survivors stood 00:02:23.344 --> 00:02:27.853 before you and recounted their harrowing stories, many of you were shaken to your core. 00:02:27.864 --> 00:02:32.093 We urge you when you cast your vote, please do not forget the horror you felt 00:02:32.104 --> 00:02:32.573 that day. 00:02:32.584 --> 00:02:34.493 There is no middle ground here. 00:02:34.504 --> 00:02:36.833 There is no hiding behind party affiliation. 00:02:36.844 --> 00:02:43.593 The testimonies you heard are just a fraction of the unimaginable suffering endured 00:02:43.604 --> 00:02:47.293 by more than a thousand victims alike. 00:02:47.304 --> 00:02:51.453 How much influence does a letter like this have? 00:02:51.464 --> 00:02:52.803 What do you expect to 00:03:06.298 --> 00:03:09.207 But it will have to come up soon, regardless. 00:03:09.218 --> 00:03:13.567 And from what I'm hearing from my Republican sources is 00:03:13.578 --> 00:03:17.547 that there are going to be a lot of Republicans, perhaps dozens, 00:03:17.558 --> 00:03:22.227 who in fact vote for the release of these files. 00:03:22.238 --> 00:03:26.107 For many, it is politically untenable. 00:03:26.118 --> 00:03:31.007 For others, they think that it's just the right thing to do. 00:03:31.018 --> 00:03:38.247 And the pressure is too great for them to ignore it when they have the choice 00:03:38.258 --> 00:03:39.607 in front of them. 00:03:39.618 --> 00:03:44.127 And so I do expect, based on what Republicans are telling me, 00:03:44.138 --> 00:03:48.467 that this vote will pass overwhelmingly that doesn't mean 00:03:48.478 --> 00:03:51.167 that these files are going to be released imminently it of 00:03:51.178 --> 00:03:56.477 course has to go to the senate next and then if it passes the senate then it's up to the president 00:03:59.100 --> 00:03:59.369 it. 00:03:59.380 --> 00:04:04.549 And that could be a very interesting decision, Katie. 00:04:04.560 --> 00:04:07.129 Yeah, I mean, it could definitely be interesting 00:04:07.140 --> 00:04:09.329 and potentially damaging. 00:04:09.340 --> 00:04:13.209 I mean, Susan, I'm so happy you brought up what happened 00:04:13.220 --> 00:04:17.449 in the 90s with the Ken Starr investigation and where it started and where it led, 00:04:17.460 --> 00:04:23.289 because I think we do forget that once you – it's like a snowball rolling down a hill. 00:04:23.300 --> 00:04:28.629 You know, it really starts to gather steam, it gets bigger and it becomes uncontrollable. 00:04:28.640 --> 00:04:31.939 Do you foresee this potentially happening here? 00:04:32.900 --> 00:04:36.709 Well, look, I think, frankly, it's already happened, arguably. 00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:40.949 Remember that this has been a scandal that has it crept up 00:04:40.960 --> 00:04:44.009 in different incarnations from the beginning of Trump's time 00:04:44.020 --> 00:04:45.249 in public life. 00:04:45.260 --> 00:04:50.089 It actually claimed one of his first term cabinet secretaries 00:04:50.100 --> 00:04:55.049 was forced to resign, Alex Acosta, because he had signed off 00:04:55.060 --> 00:04:58.589 on what later people came to view as a sweetheart plea deal 00:04:58.600 --> 00:05:02.049 for Jeffrey Epstein when Acosta had been a prosecutor in Florida. 00:05:02.060 --> 00:05:07.109 Donald Trump was very defensive, asked repeatedly about Epstein in 2019 00:05:07.120 --> 00:05:08.909 after he died. 00:05:08.920 --> 00:05:12.169 In fact, interestingly, in terms of how the White House is 00:05:12.180 --> 00:05:13.269 handling this now, right? 00:05:13.280 --> 00:05:17.230 It's often there's underlying conduct in a scandal, 00:05:17.241 --> 00:05:20.170 and then there's the question of the handling it or the cover-up 00:05:20.181 --> 00:05:23.410 or the associated spinoff investigations. 00:05:23.421 --> 00:05:28.550 Well, in this case, the White House this week—Caroline Levitt—claimed 00:05:28.561 --> 00:05:31.389 that Donald Trump fell out with Jeffrey Epstein 00:05:31.400 --> 00:05:34.189 and that he kicked him out of Mar-a-Lago because he was, quote-unquote, 00:05:34.200 --> 00:05:34.889 a pedophile. 00:05:34.900 --> 00:05:38.189 Well, in 2019, Donald Trump was asked very directly 00:05:38.200 --> 00:05:40.909 by reporters, did you have any suspicions 00:05:40.920 --> 00:05:42.109 at all about Jeffrey Epstein? 00:05:42.120 --> 00:05:42.929 Did you know about him? 00:05:42.940 --> 00:05:46.070 And Donald Trump looked in their face and said, absolutely no. 00:05:46.081 --> 00:05:47.750 No, I had no suspicions at all. 00:05:47.761 --> 00:05:51.550 So explain to me, and I wish someone would ask Caroline Levitt, 00:05:51.561 --> 00:05:56.750 how is it possible that Donald Trump kicked Jeffrey Epstein out 00:05:56.761 --> 00:06:00.430 of Mar-a-Lago for being a pedophile if he had no suspicions 00:06:00.441 --> 00:06:02.370 at all about him being a pedophile? 00:06:02.381 --> 00:06:07.130 So this is the kind of example where White Houses dig in to trouble. 00:06:07.141 --> 00:06:08.950 You know, and there's an abuse 00:06:08.961 --> 00:06:10.270 of power that's already occurring. 00:06:10.281 --> 00:06:16.970 Trump today is demanding an investigation by his Justice Department of Democrats 00:06:16.981 --> 00:06:22.470 on the basis of, you know, no specific allegation of illegal 00:06:22.481 --> 00:06:25.310 activity simply to take attention. 00:06:25.321 --> 00:06:28.390 Well, it's interesting because what you're seeing are a bunch 00:06:28.401 --> 00:06:33.810 of people who have e-mail exchanges or relationships with Jeffrey Epstein 00:06:33.821 --> 00:06:35.310 and I guess the 00:06:35.321 --> 00:06:38.310 logic here is that everybody who's been talking to him, 00:06:38.321 --> 00:06:41.750 if they have a D in front of their name, must be implicated in some way, 00:06:41.761 --> 00:06:42.890 must have done something wrong. 00:06:42.901 --> 00:06:47.690 But I, who also had a relationship with him, I am completely clean. 00:06:47.701 --> 00:06:50.330 That's a hard pill to swallow. 00:06:50.341 --> 00:06:54.010 I know there are a lot of Trump allies out there who are trying 00:06:54.021 --> 00:06:57.850 to do that and trying to make this look like Donald Trump is as a savior here 00:06:57.861 --> 00:06:59.610 or this exonerates him in some way. 00:06:59.621 --> 00:07:01.650 But there is a it is a difficult. It is a difficult. 00:07:01.661 --> 00:07:05.540 So it's a it's difficult logic is how I'll put it, Susan. 00:07:06.561 --> 00:07:09.510 Yeah, it's not a circle that you can square right away. 00:07:09.521 --> 00:07:14.610 I think it's really important again, that it's MAGA itself that is 00:07:14.621 --> 00:07:19.170 fueling this political dilemma for the president, by the way, 00:07:19.181 --> 00:07:21.730 because they've been obsessed with proving the idea 00:07:21.741 --> 00:07:27.910 that there was a secret cabal of Democrats and celebrities surrounding Epstein who were 00:07:27.921 --> 00:07:29.170 all implicated in it. 00:07:29.181 --> 00:07:33.530 And it's very politically inconvenient at a minimum that one of the people who was 00:07:33.541 --> 00:07:37.610 in Jeffrey Epstein's circle happens to be the leader of their MAGA movement. 00:07:37.621 --> 00:07:40.550 And so, you know, that's what's happening here right now 00:07:40.561 --> 00:07:44.470 is it's a political story for Donald Trump, not because we're talking about it. 00:07:44.481 --> 00:07:48.950 Frankly, he doesn't care if we talk about it, but because his own base has been 00:07:48.961 --> 00:07:52.510 the ones that have fueled the idea that there's something terrible hiding 00:07:52.521 --> 00:07:53.730 in these files all along. 00:07:53.741 --> 00:07:57.170 So they are outrage when Donald Trump is the one who tells them they can't 00:07:57.181 --> 00:07:57.730 have the files. 00:07:57.741 --> 00:08:02.950 So part of what the House has done here and what Republicans will point to is 00:08:02.961 --> 00:08:04.910 that they don't really need to get on this discharge petition, 00:08:04.921 --> 00:08:07.410 even though it's already it's it's got enough votes to pass 00:08:07.421 --> 00:08:08.770 if it if it is brought to the floor. 00:08:08.781 --> 00:08:11.410 Part of the reason they don't need to be a part of that is 00:08:11.421 --> 00:08:14.970 because the House Oversight Committee has been getting information from DOJ 00:08:14.981 --> 00:08:18.450 and from the estate so far, they've gotten a lot more from the estates. 00:08:18.461 --> 00:08:21.830 That has been revelatory than they've gotten from DOJ. 00:08:21.841 --> 00:08:24.350 I wonder, Leanne, anything else coming soon? 00:08:24.361 --> 00:08:25.540 What should we expect next? 00:08:26.501 --> 00:08:29.290 You know, I actually just asked the top Democrat 00:08:29.301 --> 00:08:32.090 on the House Oversight Committee, Congressman Garcia, 00:08:32.101 --> 00:08:36.370 about this the other day, two days ago I said, what should we expect? 00:08:36.381 --> 00:08:38.210 What else is there? 00:08:38.221 --> 00:08:41.750 And he made the point that he's not sure. 00:08:41.761 --> 00:08:47.780 He also said that, as you said, Katie, that the Epstein estate has been a lot 00:09:01.262 --> 00:09:04.691 information that is absolutely critical to have. 00:09:04.702 --> 00:09:10.391 He reminded reporters that when the Justice Department released 00:09:10.402 --> 00:09:15.331 information earlier this year in response to the House Oversight Committee 00:09:15.342 --> 00:09:20.111 that most of it, he quoted 97 % of it, had been released 00:09:20.122 --> 00:09:21.211 before. So 00:09:21.222 --> 00:09:23.711 So there seems to be more out there that we haven't seen. Yeah, 00:09:23.722 --> 00:09:24.911 Yeah, it is interesting. 00:09:24.922 --> 00:09:27.971 also just very struck by, and this is for a longer conversation, 00:09:27.982 --> 00:09:31.211 the way in which it seems Jeffrey Epstein is searching for some sort 00:09:31.222 --> 00:09:32.751 of leverage over Donald Trump. 00:09:32.762 --> 00:09:34.551 He's trying, I mean, he says over 00:09:34.562 --> 00:09:39.711 and over again to multiple different people in emails to a woman named Kathy Rumler, 00:09:39.722 --> 00:09:42.111 I know how dirty Donald Trump is. 00:09:42.122 --> 00:09:46.331 My guess is that non-lawyers, New York business people have no idea 00:09:46.342 --> 00:09:48.591 what it means to have your fixer flip. 00:09:48.602 --> 00:09:53.391 Also that the grammar and the punctuation on these emails are so strange. 00:09:53.402 --> 00:09:55.191 It's really hard to follow. 00:09:55.202 --> 00:09:58.691 I don't understand what was going on in his head, but he keeps talking over and over again. 00:09:58.702 --> 00:10:00.671 I can talk to the Russians. I've got stuff on Donald Trump. 00:10:00.682 --> 00:10:02.171 I can explain Donald Trump to them. 00:10:02.182 --> 00:10:07.531 He seems like somebody who at the very, at the very least knows the walls are closing in. 00:10:07.542 --> 00:10:10.671 He's looking for, he's looking for a way out. 00:10:10.682 --> 00:10:14.871 All right. Leanne Caldwell, Susan Glasser, LBL. 00:10:14.882 --> 00:10:16.822 Thank you ladies very much. Appreciate you being here.